The best thing to do is simply to HODL
What’s a young pony to do in a sea of shady ICOs?
A lion’s courage can light up even the darkest of shadows
Unlike the corporate suits, the whalepanda is wise
A Chiken dreams about dreams about the moon, while soaring in the skies
As Bitcoin sees new all-time highs
All around ya see big block heads bubble
Best thing to do is simply to HODL
We’ll always buy the dip
and we’ll always be the best of friends!
Ricardo’s got a stronger background because of his Monero Enterprise Alliance background
But you know, Charlie has been a director of engineering at Coinbase and he created Litecoin
So you guys are pretty equally matched
Just send your resume is over and we’ll have you guys fight it out
Okay, well, welcome guys!
It’s another early morning for me
and late evening for some of the guys here
And we still have
So let’s start off with—
It’s been in the news yesterday
I know [I’m] recording this now and showing this a lot later, but
There was a lot of controversy about the North American Bitcoin conference
and Ricardo was obviously there
Whenever there is any controversy, he’s there
So how do you experience it?
It’s not your first time at the conference,
but I’ve heard quite a lot of complaints about it
So this year was just massive
It was like insanely bigger than last year
Last year, we were almost shoved into a corner of the facility
and this year it was like
sprawling over two levels and
There was just an insane amount of space
Last year, in the vender booth area
I mean, there were maybe six booths
And this year there was just every ICO and their grandma
Which, I guess, was one of the main complaints was the number of ICOs there
But at the same time
What do you do, you know?
It’s not a technical conference
So you can’t say to people that wanna have booths,
that have the money, like “No, go away!”
If you’ve got the money, excuse the pun
then I don’t see a problem with accepting it and admitting them
Letting then show their ways
At the end of the day, that’s the only way to really expose the stuff, anyway
Is to have them go up on stage and have robots, dust them and smoke
and let people look at it and go “What?”
Because if you do it any other way then what’s the point?
So what was your favorite ICO?
Oh man, there were so many
I guess the augmented reality—virtual reality ones
I have no idea what—why they need a blockchain for
No one could explain to me
why they need a blockchain for
But they do use a blockchain, right ?
They almost pack all the buzzwords in
That’s like “So what we’re doing, what we’ve developed is VR-AR goggles that
offer VR as a service on the blockchain in a container, or whatever.”
You know, like, let’s pack all the buzzwords in
the only thing that we’re missing is AI
There was also some controversy about the after-party, or something like that, in a strip club
But I don’t know if it was the official after-party,
or that was just some couple of people who went there, or
Okay, so that was the Dash official after-party on the Saturday event
It was called on their agenda as
the Dash Networking Event, sponsored by Dash
So—just so there’s no confusion
this was like, you know, on the Friday night was the official
the Thursday night was the official welcome party at the Cleveland
on the Friday night was the Dash Networking event
So this was— you know, like, I wrote a couple of people say
“Don’t blame Dash” yadda yadda yadda
At the end of the day with the
“Somebody organized it and Dash was complicit”
or with the “Dash organized it” is irrelevant
The fact of the matter is, it was at a strip club
you know like, I don’t care if people go to strip clubs
Go ahead, whatever floats your boat
But I think there’s some stuff that feels like appropriate, subjectively
feels appropriate for a conference, like this and there’s some stuff that doesn’t
and subjectively, to me, that grated me a bit because
I mean, I was at a yacht party at the time and
I didn’t go, so I wasn’t there personally to experience it, but
I guess it just feels like I’d be trying to create a culture and an environment
Where people go like
“Oh, okay I went to a Bitcoin conference and there were a thousand Lambo’s parked outside
and I went to a strip club as the official party”
Is that the culture which I want to create? Cause that just feels like
Feels like a BitConnect conference
Yeah, it feels very cheap but
I also saw on the website there were like
at least 40 or 50 speakers listed on ICOs because there’s a separate section for ICOs
and it was like a crazy amount of ICO speakers
but from what I understand you also only had like 50 minutes to quickly do your talk?
Your talk was great. I saw your talk. You only had a very limited amount of time it seemed
Yeah, I only had 15 minutes, but then the ICO pitches had even less
A lot of this stuff is really just genuinely elevator pitches
I do think—again, this isn’t a technical conference, you know
It’s not like Breaking Bitcoin or Scaling Bitcoin or anything like that
Where you’d want to
You want a year from Dave’s or whatever and at the same time,
I think that people there need to be exposed to some of the interesting technical stuff
Otherwise all they’re getting are ICO pitches all day long
So I try to at least give them a little bit of interesting info in my talk
They’re probably wondering
when you’re doing your next ICO
Can we get in on that?
Okay, so the next topic is actually also a very interesting one
Greg Maxwell resigned as CTO of Blockstream to further develop Bitcoin privacy enhancements
like Bulletproofs, and stuff like that
Can anyone actually explain what Bullterproofs are? Someone?
It’s when you can’t get killed by a bullet
There’s bulletproof vests and stuff that you can wear
It’s when you have an armored car
Yeah, that’s a bulletproof also
Well, speaking of Greg Maxwell, I’m surprised it took him that long to leave Blockstream
Why? It’s awesome
Not a diss on Blockstream
It’s just that I can’t imagine like how annoying it is
to have to be CTO of Blockstream and deal with all this
Stupid Blockstream-related stuff and still try to like code for
for Bitcoin and just like crazy
There’s a lot of drama
as you may have heard
A lot of drama, a lot of hate
Recently there was a music video
I wonder if he didn’t ever fall out with
What’s it? The Bilderbergs?
You know like in one of their secret Illuminati meetings?
Maybe you just had a fallout with them
It happens all the time
Now I heard that the XSE CEO
requested that he was removed from his position
No, but on a serious note
He mentioned that there’s too many other responsibilities
that came in a way of him actually developing something
and that he had to focus on other sidechains
that Blockstream was also working on
So I think for Bitcoin itself it’s like great news
I think it’s great news, I think him focusing on
Confidential Transactions, Bulletproofs
Snarky signatures, I think it’s great
– Thanks Samson for kicking him out
– No worries
Well, the price is down, so we had to do something. Right?
So none of you guys can explain what Bullterproofs is? Okay?
I’ll do it, okay
So in Monero and in confidential transactions, which are then used on Monero
Instead of displaying the amount
or instead of using the amount of the transaction, you use a “commitment”
And in order to make sure that you’re not raising money out of thin air
There’s a little bit of commitment arithmetic where you subtract the total number
or the total output commitments
minus the total input commitments
The problem is that you could use a negative number to artificially create money out of thin air
So, what we use is a sign called range proofs
and range proofs just prove that
all the numbers, all the commitments, are positive numbers without revealing the numbers
So it’s a zero knowledge proof
Bulletproofs is a compact way of doing range proofs, so it represents significant cost savings
Which is of course highly advantageous because range proofs are massive in and of themselves
So that already is just a fantastic cost-saving
And the trick that bulletproofs uses as a cost-saving mechanism
was a way to get a cost-saving mechanism that can be used to do other cool privacy-related stuff too
It seems that we lost Charlie on the way
Yeah, I’m still here
Hey, sorry for the bad connection. I’m back
Hello, Magical Crypto Friends, this is the real Charlie Lee
What were we talking about again?
Oh, yeah, we were talking about my true vision
It’s the way Litecoin was always meant to be
Remember, it’s not LCash
It’s called Litecoin Cash
If I hear anyone say LCash again
I’m going to go full Roger Ver on you
Anyways, Litecoin Cash, my true vision
Again, I’m the real Charlie—
Okay, it’s enough of that, get the hell out of here
– Okay, welcome back.
– Well. Who is that guy?
I don’t know, he was really cool
Yeah, he was—he was super interesting, totally on point. We should have him on more often
– I think so
Some reckless people have started testing Lightning on the mainnet
There are now around a hundred different participants
Blockstream launched a commercial website
About last week
Where you can buy stickers and really, really getting close to like real-life—
– How should I put it? really..
– Real-life usage?
Real-life usage! Yes, that’s the word I was looking for
I think that’s a lie. I think it’s just Samson sending payments to himself
And setting up all the different nodes!
Yeah, all the nodes are me actually
Show me the prove it’s more than one person
I’ll show you the Proof of Sticker
Yeah, you just give me stickers to yourself
Yeah, you have to buy it, you have to buy it, Charlie
You have to be reckless to buy one
Are you selling hats?
I got lightning working, but all I got was this sticker
We will do hats. It’s on the roadmap
It’s on the roadmap
And now, Satoshi Dice also starting again on the testnet
Have you guys tried it, yet?
Wait, Satoshi Dice is doing what on what?
They’re already starting out Lighting on the testnet
Well, virtually. Not really the official Satoshi Dice
but like a similar game
The official Satoshi Dice is working on Bitcoin Cash, right? Or Bcash
Yes, working on Bcash
Not that it gets them any more transactions, but yeah
It’s there if anyone ever wanted to use it
Which, yeah, we know the answer too
Oh, WhalePanda, I like your t-shirt, I just noticed it
So let’s sell it over a Lightning e-commerce store
No, that would be reckless
Reckless sticker is coming, don’t worry
Just as reckless as the multi-sic wallet, right?
Just as reckless as the parody multi-sic wallet, maybe
So you guys haven’t tested it yet?
What do you guys think about the fact that it’s already live now on the mainnet?
Is it like too reckless?
In a way, sometimes, if it’s on the mainnet
People will be more careful with it and test it better, or
I think it’s fine. I think like, I mean if you’re just putting like $20 on it
And if you happen to lose it so be it, right?
You’re just testing it
If there’s no one’s taking risk
Then you won’t get anywhere
So, my thinking is that we have to start from somewhere, right?
People have to buy something
or use Lightning on mainnet for something
So it may as well be for low value items like stickers and t-shirts
And I think that will jumpstart it and then—that’s actually what we’re seeing now
There are more nodes, more channels open and more people willing to test
Because if we don’t test it somewhere, then we’ll never get anywhere.
There’s not gonna be one day where it’s gonna be totally safe,
but if the worst profile is just stickers and t-shirts and stuff, I think we can handle that
I’ve also read—so somebody the other day was saying like
The big danger is if you use it for large payments
And I’m like “but if you’re making a $100,000 dollar payment wouldn’t you just make that as a normal Bitcoin payment?
– Why would you use Lighting?
Yeah, plus, Lighting will not support large payments that easily
because people won’t have $100,000 dollar payment channels open
Yeah, so I think that—not that the risk is minimal at all but I mean
If you mostly using it for small payments, then the risk to
both, yourself and the counterparty is relatively low
because you’re only buying a $10 item or a $20 item
and you know, worst case scenario something happens and
Whatever, you split the loss or someone takes a $20 hit
That’s why we have the testnet, to test all these stuff on
But in a way people really—it’s a bit hard now, people really want to start using it
So I think that the fact that it’s now on the mainnet, it’s something positive
as long as there’s not too much FUD
Too much drama and too many losses, and
Yeah, the other thing of course is I’ve had this discussion recently quite a lot
Testnet is great for, well, you know, testing things
But it’s more like a like a dev environment
You know, the people using testnet to test things are typically experienced technical people
You need to sort of throw it out there and give it some mainnet real-world usage
in order to: A) make it viable to attack because now there’s actual money
B) make it more accessible to people who are not going to set up a testnet node, or anything like that
Yeah, plus there’s also a natural barrier too
like your average, average user
with an SPV wallet is not going to be testing this on Lightning, right?
There’s a huge barrier, you can get set up and running before you can actually test it on mainnet
Yeah, I must say though like I’m really impressed with what Jack Mallers is doing with Zap
And just sort of I mean he’s—obviously there’s a lot of like Debian dev tools style stuff in Zap
but in terms of like getting on board and using it
Zap’s kind of like reasonably easy.
I can give it to a non-technical person
and they can get up and running relatively quickly
Samson, you told me before the show that you wanted to quickly talk about the China Ban
Or South Korea Ban, or whatever Asian-country Ban?
Asian Ban, yes
I think they’re calling ‘Asian Ban’ now because it’s easier, right?
But, yeah, the funny thing about it, is that it’s not really a ban, it’s more of like a re-ban
so there’s a notice, internal to the PBOC, that was saying
“Banks should not deal with accounts that do cryptocurrency trading”
but they actually announced that a long time ago, and it’s kind of a
re-issuance of an internal memo that was leaked either on purpose or not
It’s not really a new thing when you look at it
Okay. That’s simple enough
Do you have any thoughts about South Korea? What’s going on there?
I think they’re looking into more regulation it seems, but South Korea is
Pretty interesting right now, you have accusations of insider trading from government officials that are
Banning Bitcoin, so I don’t know, it just looks like a drama
yeah, and it was like
They sold right before the announcement or something
I don’t know right now if it was an announcement so, something like that
So it’s pretty wild wild west
But I think if they do have a bit more regulation there will be a bit more consumer protection
Right so, exchanges love to be more careful, but what they do?
They have to ensure a certain level of support and service so that people don’t get stuck
when they’re trading in all-time highs and
You know any other shady things that might be going on.
Yeah, so— we’re in this weird place I guess. Where
no one wants to invite tons of regulation into the space, but at the same time
if we want stuff like patient capital, if we want
Institutional investors to come in, then we need to have some regulation
Because things like ETFs, the SEC has made it very clear that they’re not going to allow ETFs
Because of the fact that there’s so little regulation
amongst exchanges, so you kind of want the exchanges to be reasonably regulated
so that at least the SEC can turn around and say
“Okay, we’re now in a more regulated environment, ETFs are fine”
And I mean that at least from my perspective is desirable [in order] to have
institutional investment and institutional money coming in
Because they’re less prone to panicking during, you know, slight declines
– A slight decline, yeah,
– No need to panic sell, just a slight decline
People are screaming their heads off when that happens
It always happens, we’ve been through it a couple times
so many times when like, most people like, 90% of people are new
they bought Bitcoin or Litecoin at the high last year and they’re scared
I’m so jaded that, like, you know
To just—you see the price go up, you see the price go down and like nothing even
Like I don’t even look at it anymore. It’s like “Oh it went down last week, cool”
You know, you sort of rely on crypto Twitter to let you know
Maybe look like every couple days
Unless we’re at an all-time high
But in general it doesn’t really help you to look at it every day or every hour, it’s just very distracting.
For me it’s a bit different yeah it’s kind of like
It hurts. Sometimes it really hurts.
So on towards the first real topic of the day
Coinbase, I think we’re all surprised by the big UTXO
Problem or fuckup or however you want to call it.
It was like way bigger than anyone expected
So the UTXO problem is an issue that more exchanges have, but it was now exposed
on Coinbase by not properly managing their outputs
From present transactions, they end up with like put a lot of tiny amounts in different addresses
so in the end, in order to
Spend or consolidate these tiny amounts
It would cost them a lot in mining fees more than the actual amount
of coins that are in there
But to stay a bit positive on Coinbase
they did say now that they will implement batching and Segwit this year
but—Charlie can you explain to us a bit?
Why do the UTXO problem is still happening on Coinbase?
You were after all— you were working there for quite a while.
I think it’s just
I mean, I’m not sure how big of a problem it is right now?
I mean, it’s like in terms of like the percentage of coins
That they have stuck versus how many coins are holding it may be some really small percentage
But the nominal value is fairly large today
But it’s not something that it’s going to cause them to go bankrupt or anything
And I’m sure they can like part of it from a mining pool and help them like clear out these
UTXOs by paying a little bit of money, but I don’t think it’s gonna cost them that much money
in terms of like why—like why they haven’t been batching transactions
I mean the reason why it’s like a little party because they care more about
scaling, right? It’s more important for
They make more money—they lose more money if the site goes down then the amount of money
They’re losing from paying a little bit more fees in terms of not batching
Yeah but that’s not the issue though
the issue is that they’re clogging things up for everybody else, right?
Well, I mean it’s an open network right so
If they’re willing to pay the fees
it’s like spam, right?
If spammers are willing to pay the fees for a transaction—you can’t call this spam, right?
It’s a valid connection
So Coinbase is willing to pay the fees then
they did not really do anything wrong per se but
They could do, I think—work on making things better
But we shouldn’t incentivize them to do the right thing, right?
The network should work
I tend to agree. I mean, at the end of the day
Bitcoin can’t be such that
That it only works if everyone’s a good actor
– You know, so I mean
If Coinbase are willing to pay the fee and they don’t want to batch
But we can be upset with them, because they’re
It’s not that they’re abusing a limited resource, but that they’re not using the limited resource wisely
But we can’t really force them to do anything
Yeah, but the problem is that they’re saying we need to scale the two megabyte blocks now
now and while they’re doing all that stuff right?
If they’re just quietly working away and making their profit and paying the fees and
Just being a good actor
You know, in some aspects, then who cares?
But the problem is that they got very political to do all these things
While they’re acting like a spammer basically,
I don’t think Coinbase really went out of the way to
To say that they need to increase the block size now
I mean they just went along with everyone else
It’s not—I don’t think Coinbase made more noise than any other company
– Then I could tell
But they’ve been involved with every single attempt at the fork
– Like every every other implementation
– XD, Classic, unlimited, 2X
Yeah, I mean can you blame them?
I mean, they want to externalize the cost to the network, right?
Tragedy of the Commons
Yeah, I mean as a business
Maximizing profit means if the network is willing to increase the block size
And they pay—they cost them less money than them having to
Optimize their transactions, right?
I mean yeah, people are giving them crap about it, but
It’s not surprising that these companies
Want to increase the block size, that’s simpler and cheaper for them
Yeah, makes sense I guess so,
– But we don’t have to like you
– We see so—no of course we don’t like it
And people are—the people showed their dislike every time Brian post something on Twitter, right?
so I mean, I’m sure he gets the message, and they’re working on batching, they’re working on Segwit
Yeah, they still want to scale, so they’re working all that
and customer support and people give them crap about that so
I mean, it’s being Coinbase
Give them a break
Stop being awesome?
Says the former employee
I know, but I tend to agree, I mean
I think that we—and I am guilty of this too.
We can be overly harsh sometimes on
People because—not just people but on companies and sometimes we forget that a lot of these companies
They’re fighting an uphill battle against
against newcomers, who don’t know how things work
They’re just trying to manage the existing and new customer base
and then we’re like “oh, please make us major change to your system”
Otherwise we will write angry things on Twitter
Yes, that is true. Well then you gotta look at the other way, too
So instead of doing that, they went and did CryptoKitty’s mobile so
yeah their priorities are really not in the right place
I understand from a business point of view
It is of course you’re just looking at profit so what’s the easiest quick win to make more profit?
So I guess in that way in it their priorities makes some sense yeah, I mean they
I mean, they report to their investors, right? They have to make the money they don’t
They don’t report to the Bitcoin users or the network
To be fair they do you have they’ve got one developer
Who’s working on lightning
So I mean like, it’s not like they aren’t deploying resources around
And I also trying to hire like five more developers who can work open-source
so I think they’re trying to do the right thing, yeah
It’s difficult. I think at the end of the day it’s difficult
And you know that I have a deep respect for the situation they’re in
and I don’t know if I would make better decisions. I think all we can do is just keep encouraging them to
Do stuff like batching and Segwits and that
Because ultimately is good for their profitability
It’s good for their bottom line, and it’s an exercise in futility if they don’t do that
Yeah, I mean Segwit is—I mean, I can understand
Why they haven’t focus on implementing Segwit
I mean Segwit doesn’t affect their bottom line
But I mean that’s pretty much it, all right
so they—it’s more important to focus on scaling to keep the site up to
keep making money than to work out on Segwit which
May be good for like a long-term plan, but in the short term. It’s not going to affect much
Well Bitcoin is all about the long term, so hopefully they hurry up
Hopefully they gets the message now.
-I’m pretty sure they’re working on it
Coinbase’s infrastructure is quite complicated
I mean, we focus on security, so the coins are like all locked up in a place that’s hard to
software’s hard to change
And you don’t want to just literally change that part of the software without like real
lot of testing because then you can lose a lot of money
so for example like for batching, if you screw that up and all sudden like
Potentially withdrawal could you could send out five withdrawals
not the same amount to the same person because you screwed up the
multi-threading of patching
In that neck caused Coinbase to lose a lot more money than the fees they’re paying
if someone withdraws $50,000 dollars, and then you send them like $250,000 dollars
And they run away with it then you’re screwed for a lot more than you’re losing in fees by not doing batching so
I can understand why they don’t prioritize patching
Last couple of weeks there are quite big
Pump and dumps
We’ve seen TRON, you’ve seen Ripple,
Ripple went from like 146 million— Billion, sorry
Then up to 35 billion then went back up to 60 billion
And it was on CNBC at like—they literally showed you how to buy it on Poloniex
on CNBC live
On the highest point, like it was like around $3 dollars yeah
Now we’ve had like a lot of criticism about project,
but I don’t know if everyone knows the exact history
So it’s a centralized project no one is actually using it though
They’re using like the protocol
But the first time I met Ricardo
Actually at Consensus last year
He told me like a very interesting story about Ripple that I didn’t know yet so Ricardo
Tell us the story
It’s just about the missing blocks
– Yeah, so there’s
like 33,000-32,000 say I’ve got blocks missing from the beginning of the ledger and
I’ve had arguments with Ripple people on Twitter who insist that “somewhere, some node definitely has it”
You know so why it’s not an issue
The fact that you can’t find them is not an issue because some node has it
And they can just ask those people for the blocks. What’s the big deal?
and also it’s no problem because nothing obviously nothing bad happened in those 32,000 blocks because
You know, Ripple’s a good company, and they would never do anything bad.
They wouldn’t have used those to create fake money or anything
I’ve never looked into their tech
How can you be missing blocks in a Blockchain?
Probably because it isn’t a real blockchain. I don’t know
I’ve never heard of this so they’re missing 32,000 blocks that
– That no one has?
It’s so—it’s not Blockchain, you can just have like history removed and everything still works?
Apparently, but I don’t even know, I don’t know, it’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard in my life
and the fact that it’s like
Like they—I mean, how do you even sync up without those blocks?
Like my brain can’t wrap around, the amount—
To be fair, all the Monero blocks are missing, I can’t see anything, so
So, look who’s talking, right?
No, but look, I mean, either—again like with ripple as with other things—
if they were just straight-up honest about it
And they were like “hey, what we are is completely centralized, were like the PayPal of cryptocurrencies”
And we’re, you know, we’re not trying to be decentralized”
then I think people would be with at least respect that more, but they—
– But then they won’t be billionaires, so
– Yeah, but they
It’s okay just get CNBC to shill it to $5 dollars
yeah, but they—I mean,I don’t know if you saw the argument that they had with Peter Tod
About how like Ripple validators even though
even though like the default ones are hinged off the Ripple domain
anyone could be a validatorand so they forced decentralized and then just like
That’s it. That’s the end of discussion, anyone can be a validator. That’s permissionless and
and they hammered on this point the whole time
if it’s this magical decentralized thing and yet they constantly have
Relationships and partnerships with banking, to the events at their announcing, which is
Wait, wait, there is no banks using it, I read an article
– The reporter is asking like
“Who was actually using this?” And it came back like “nobody”
And then I think a couple days later MoneyGram said
“Yeah, we’re testing something” but MoneyGram
Yes but, MoneyGram is doing a pilot, there again, that MoneyGram thing
They’re like “Oh! We’ve partnered up with MoneyGram!”
And MoneyGram is like
“Yes, we’re partners with MoneyGram and MoneyGram is using the Ripple Token”
And then MoneyGram were like “No, actually we’re conducting a pilot”
There’s a disconnect between like the XRP and like their Ripple protocol for banks, right?
I don’t think any of the banks are—will ever touch XRP, but they’re
I don’t know if they’re doing on purpose—they’re probably doing it on purpose
but their confusing issue where
The people investing in XRP think that it’s related to their banking partnerships.
They work very hard to imply very vaguely
– This is used by banks when it’s totally a separate
It’s like you could fork Bitcoin and use it to power blockchain for yourself, but it has nothing to do with Bitcoin
Yeah, and then the price of XRP goes up.
They have more money to do more partnerships
I know for a fact that they’re using XRP to kind of
Like they’re giving away XRP to these partners, right? That’s part of the deal
And you just look at the deal they made with—was it R3?
Yeah, I mean they do something like that so it’s
The MoneyGram thing is
I can’t—It’s called a project product rather it’s called ‘X rapid’, and it does use XRP for liquidity
So it’s not that they are completely issuing XRP, the token
It’s just that no one is using it except for like a couple of pilots like MoneyGram
So they—they’re trying to make it— it’s like
taking something that’s a speculative token and trying to make it a utility token
You know, it’s not that easy and you can form all the partnerships you want
But like it doesn’t just happen overnight that suddenly it becomes utility
And I honestly I don’t see
I don’t see banks doing this massive switch over to XRP the token as a liquidity product
There was something else, there was like someone was doing a transaction and
It never arrived at the other exchange where it was sending it to
so it was like that, they were investigating it and
Apparently one of the validators went offline
so it was literally got like Ripple nodes floor or something that went offline after a
Couple of days or like a week. It’s only came back online and
Then his transaction went through so
He was actually just stuck because one of the Ripple nodes was down
– One of the six Ripple nodes, right?
– Yeah, exactly
But don’t forget anyone can be a validator, so it’s totally decentralized
Yeah, I never understood the whole
The whole like Ripple
How the whole consensus works, it seems like a lot of hand-wavy, and I haven’t looked at it in like years
But when I first heard about it like “how does this work?” like this is just like someone says
“We’ll figure it out, the consensus will form” like it just never
I never understand how it works
Charlie, the distinction you need to make there is the original
Ripple protocol was interesting, the thing we have today is very different from the original proposal
and I think like the original proposal was a lot of was basically trying to do like a
Byzantine fault-tolerance style thing
And the Ripple protocol today is just this weird maze of like
Validators will magically come to consensus
It doesn’t matter anyways
It doesn’t matter
okay, so I want to do a—announce a contest, so I’ve got a
2018 SIPA calendar, a year of SIPA calendar
it’s a calendar with 12 months of Pieter Wuille SIPA, so
You can see we’ve got some really nice artwork
I’ve got a few other artists that contributed there, that allowed me to use their work, right?
– Are you selling this on your blockstream store?
– Yeah, yeah
– We’ll put a few, limited
– Yeah but can I buy it with Lightning?
We’ll put a few limited editions ones on the Blockstream store
But yeah, I want to announce the contest
the contest will be
You have to come up, the top five, Peter Wuille facts
So you can go to pieterwuillefacts.com
What they are, but the top five submissions is at magical crypto will win one of these lovely calendars
It’s nice to give back to the fans
I heard Pieter Wuille when he was once in the fight with Elon Musk and won
– On a rocket?
Okay, we have a winner, we have one winner already
So there’s four more chances to win one of these calendars
Just set us up all three of us alreayd like it.
I heard Pieter Wuille was on the witness stand and then they segregated him from the other witnesses
Vaporware, it’s just vaporware, we need bigger witness stands
We’re going to switch to some fan questions.
So the first one: “How and when did you get into Bitcoin or Crypto?”
Okay so for me—I’ll do it first, for me it was around January 2014
that I actually bought my first Bitcoin
I heard about first around I think 2011
in Black Hat World, which was an online marketing forum
but it all sounded so much like a scam, like “we have magical internet money” and
Yeah, and “there’s only a limited amount’
So I just assumed that was a scam, and I just ignore it for a couple of years and then I got
into the—in the mainstream media and then actually
So for me it was around 2014
So the biggest mistake of your life was ignorng bitcoin when you first heard about it
2006, I got into bitcoins
Only one year after I did
Uh, yeah 2011
I read an article on the Silk road about it on the site
I read an article on Wired about the Silk Road
You mean you bought something on Silk Road?
That’s why you are the way you are
I used drugs to buy Bitcoin
I’m just kidding
Yeah, I actually bought my first Bitcoin from Mike Hearn
I was at Google at the time and he was at Google and he was like the Bitcoin guy at Google, so
But I think I bought one Bitcoin from him,
So I also have to thank Mike Hearn for
Introducing me to Bitcoin, because I wrote a Slashdot article in early 2011
When you released—what is it? Bitcoin J
I was like “Oh, okay. What’s this Bitcoin thing and why is a Google engineer so interested in it?” and
And I went and read up, read the white paper and all that
And I was like “Nah this is nonsense, this can never work, this is impossible”
and I was trying to prove that it was impossible and that didn’t go so well
So Samson, for you, when did you get into Bitcoin?
Think it was 2013, I read an article on TechCrunch talking about Bitcoin,
and I actually tried to mine that time so I set up an account on slush and
Didn’t get anything so I gave up.
I was really busy, so I was like doing game development at times
So I didn’t have time to play with it too much, so I just kind of knew about it
I was just watching it, reading in the news
And then I got my first Bitcoin actually from your brother Charlie, from Bobby
So it is—it was at this Christmas party, and he was
Really trying to sell people bitcoins, so I bought one from him. It was like 2014
That’s probably the one I gave him
I think you owe me a Bitcoin
And I paid for that
I did give him a Bitcoin like, back then
Bitcoins were $30
I sent him the Bitcoins, playing around with this. He never gave it back to me, so
Yeah, call him up
This is a lot more technical than the previous one
So how does Meltdown and Spectre affect the crypto space
This is more for Ricardo
Yeah, I think the primary issue is
all of these attacks just can lead to things like
Key exfiltration, that’s really your main risk
and I think that
If you weren’t using a hardware wallet up till now for
Storing anything over like a $100 dollars, then you need to really like reconsider your priorities
There’s, you know, we’re never going to mitigate risk entirely
you know, there’s always going to be like like a really sophisticated targeted attack
that will be able to exfiltrate your keys regardless
But a lot of those things, when we’re getting to the point where
They’re compromising Hardware wallets in that
that’s sort of that little sophistication that they were targeting
Often requires physical access, it requires, you know intercepting packages and all sorts of stuff
And I don’t think you typically need to worry about that
Unless you are literally storing millions and millions of dollars
so for the most part
Just literally, just having a hardware wallet that you’ve ordered directly from ledger
or digital Bitbox or any of those guys
Trezor or whatever, literally just having that is enough to shield you from a lot of these unknown attacks like
Spectre and Meltdown and some of the new stuff that’s coming up
All that is sort of off-shoot from all those attacks
I think there are also applications for exchanges too
Because exchanges are using a lot of cloud infrastructure and
They’re pretty much at risk just because it’s hard for an exchange to scale up using bare metal
So everybody is almost on cloud, which they
Shouldn’t be, but it’s not—there’s no easy solution around that so yeah, it’s gonna be a challenge
It’s like exchanges that use MongoDB
you know, I mean like eventual consistency is not the sort of thing you want in exchange and
and so you some of the blame honestly lies with exchanges
where—if they’re doing that, if they’re doing like
The stuff that isn’t very robust and rigorous, like hosting on VMs and AWS
They—you know, scaling is a hard
And if you’re scaling financial software
It’s doubly so, because you can’t do it in the easy route. You need to actually have
your own cage at a set of cages at data centers
And you need to be able to like lock people out physically
and all sorts of stuff, and it—there’s no way around it
Reminds me of, there’s one exchange that had their exchange running on a VM and the VM
Restarted and came up like clean, everything wiped
And the their hot wallets, all the Bitcoins are gone
Because they didn’t have a backup
I hope it was a while ago
Yeah, it was a while ago.
They didn’t realize that when the VM restarts it comes back up clean
Yeah, it was like millions of dollars worth of coins, probably it’s worth a billion dollar now
Learning lessons, growing pains
One interesting questions I thought is that
Is it possible if people are too complacent and lazy to find decentralization useful?
If so, how do you envision the development for the industry?
Because if you think about it,
If you value decentralization, you will never buy something like Ripple
Which is like the perfect example for that
I consider this one of the threats to Bitcoin and Monero
It’s just the level of complacency that people have maybe more to Monero, you know that people will go like well
“Yeah, privacy is kind of cool, but is it that important?”
You know, is it worth overcoming the barriers to entry
To use this privacy enhancing project or tool, and if there’s enough complacency then
People won’t, they’ll just be too lazy to do it and maybe with
Bitcoin and with other stuff we’ll see the same people will be too lazy to figure out
Why something is a bad idea, and they’ll just use it because
Transactions are fast, and they work, and they don’t really care how or why,
but then why don’t you just use PayPal?
Yeah, why don’t you?
Because they want the allure of
Using decentralized internet money
but they want the ease of use of PayPal
so here’s a good example
Something like Dash
Okay with their masternodes and Dash Evolution and whatever they’re doing this whole thing
Where—as I understand it
You’ll be able to register with your email address and so the—from an ease of use perspective
Users will find that extremely compelling because it’ll be like a PayPal-like experience
And the users can even be sold the story that is decentralized
because anyone can run a Masternode just like anyone can be a Ripple validator and
And if you’ve sold that story
And you get the ease of use then of course you—as a user you might go
“This is fantastic” and struggle to tell or to understand why that model is bad, why that idea is broken.
It’s not something that that’s easy to translate into Layman’s terms, you know like
“Hey, you know, this is bad, and here’s why”
yeah, I think it’s a really good question though
and I think people are quite complacent—a lot of the new people especially, they’re just coming in because
They want to make some money, right?
And it’s not even a factor for a lot of those people
But decentralization and censorship resistance
You know, these are all things that don’t really matter until suddenly it matters
Once you’ve experienced some kind of censorship,
or you know you need some system to be decentralized, it’s kind of too late, so it’s kind of like
thinking ahead of time or realizing something has value before you need it
And that’s not a quality most people have
but actually you can look at a practical example of this
So, you know the internet was built in a certain way and now we have risks of
attacks on net neutrality and
You know, nothing is encrypted over Internet.
You know, we could have built Internet so everything had encryption at the base level
But we don’t actually have that, but looking back now
You know, that would have been handy to have when we were developing the protocol
I think most people, like far majority people in this space right now are
Just here to try to make a quick buck, right?
so they’re just speculating, you don’t have to care that much about
Using a cryptocurrency and it’s more about like investing in and trading
sell later for profit, so today like decentralization is just a buzzword
Makes their coin worth more money
So they don’t really care if the coin is truly decentralized or not
I think, like Samson said
Well, you won’t really know until you’re tested,
and you won’t really know like for example
Is Dash decentralized? Is Ripple decentralized?
And then it’s all about the fact that your payments is uncensorable
Right? The security of decentralization is just to make sure that when you pay something
someone some money that no one can block you, no one can breach your transactions
No one can steal your money
And Bitcoin is by far the most decentralized coin, but
For a lot of people they don’t care
Well, here’s a funny story so, when we launched the blockstream satellite
So we’re distributing the news in China on social media and everything
when we launched blockstream from satellite, a lot of people like oh
“That’s so stupid” and then a few months later when China was saying they’re gonna ban
mining and they filter traffic for Bitcoin
Then also, I noticed like one articles like was being retweeted over and over and over again,
then people are saying well
“This is really cool, the satellite technology, and it’s really useful”
So you just don’t know until someday you might need something
Right? Or something might come in handy
Can miners actually run with your your satellite technology?
Can they like get the blocks that way then get the transactions that way and then?
Upload their blocks some other way?
We’re working on something.
We’re working on two-way transmission up and down, so give us some time
Latency would probably mean that your orphan risk is too high
If you’re using that for mining
To broadcast a block, we should be able to do it,
but you know, would have to work with Chris, our head of satellite and figure something out
I love it, Head of satellite
– Yeah, I was just thinking, Head of Satelite
– That’s his title
“What do you do?” “Oh I’m the head of satellite”
– It sounds cool, like actually
– Yeah, CEO of Monero Enterprise Alliance
– You know, all cool titles
They can only be one CEO—although actually, they can be many CEOs
with the Monero Enterprise Alliance, anyone can be a CEO
How much does it pay?
So it pays about 5,000 Monero a month
But you just need to bear in mind that that’s testnet-Monero
Okay last question
So, why do we accept BCash on our YouTube page, Samson?
Because WhalePanda wanted it
Yeah, obviously yeah, that makes sense
We accept BCash on our YouTube page? What?
Where’s my BCash?
You’re the Tip Address
Have we received any Bitcoin Cash yet?
Nope, last time I checked, we didn’t
We accept some Bitcoin but
Why does the Bitcoin Cash community not like us?
I’m even calling a Bitcoin cash. See? I’m nice
The Bitcoin Cash community should be tipping us
If we don’t get $10,000 dollas in Bitcoin Cash within the next week
We must stop accepting Bitcoin Cash
And we’re gonna change it to Bitcoin Cash ROFL
– Okay, John the Kaplan
– Or BCash, BCash ROFL
Okay, Samson you tweeted that
Like, I think two weeks ago, that if you got 20,000 retweets
– You would start making the short story
And I saw it now, It’s already at 16,000
I think someone bought some retweets very obviously, cause we’re at 16,000
– So we’re getting close
So, have you started writing the script yet?
Not yet, but I’ve got some ideas,
It’s gonna have a kangaroo and
He speaks with an Aussie accent
So does this mean that I can stop doing this podcast
The stupid podcast
no, this is in addition to the Podcast
– This is your life now,
But you said you were not doing any
Media coverage anymore. This is like your only voice
– The people want to hear you, Charlie
No they don’t, they just can’t find Satoshi, that’s why
They have to settle for Satoshi Lite
Well, the TRON people don’t want to hear you.
– That’s for sure,
– Not sure why,
– TRON yeah
– The movie?
No, not the movie, the shit going on
The movie was good
Okay guys, a very productive day
Again, so let’s finish the show,
Thank you all for watching and see you next time
Okay, see you guys